Internet Famous Angry Men

Mike Cernovich’s Writings on Rough Sex, Dominance Mindset, and Date Rape

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“Mike-Danger-Lawyer.png” Undated photo, credit: Mike Cernovich/D&P

Is Mike Cernovich a rapist? Posts written during his “Game” period on Danger and Play (circa 2009-2012) shed light on Mike’s attitudes about rape, dominance, and “rough sex”.

Mike Cernovich has lately been re-inventing himself as a “national security reporter”, political activist and family man. But not too long ago, Mike’s online persona was that of a game/PUA blogger, and he wrote a lot of posts in the style of a ‘Return of Kings’ columnist and uploaded them to his men’s variety blog, ‘Danger and Play’.

Reading what Mike wrote about rough sex, what women want, his seduction techniques, and his self-reported sexual encounters suggest a man whose interpersonal style with women is at best physically domineering, and which at its worst got him charged with rape. Further posts seem to depict a man pre-occupied with what he calls “false rape accusations”, and who has dedicated a good deal of time thinking about how to avoid being charged for rape for what, to his mind, is consensual sex. These writings demonstrate a pattern in Cernovich’s behavior and ideas which I consider quite troubling and within the public interest to discuss.

Mike Cernovich is certainly on the record as being a great fan of rough sex, as he is in this article “How to Choke a Woman During Sex: 

Women enjoy being choked during sex. It turns them on and gives them more powerful orgasms. […] Choking works because it’s a show of dominance. More than anything a woman wants an alpha male. […]

The number one sexual fantasy have is a rape fantasy. Nearly 40% of women have a rape fantasy. […] The key is that she is taken against her will by a high value, dominant man who could satisfy her genetic desire for healthy and fit offspring. […]

“You look like the kind of girl who enjoys being choked,” I told a girl who I was gaming at a bar. She smiled, “How could you tell?”

I immediately pinned her back against the wall. I pressed my body against hers, put my hand around her neck, and began squeezing – gently at first to make sure she was comfortable with what was happening. Then I gave her a nice hard squeeze as a show of strength.

One hour later, I was hooking up with her in the back seat of her car. Two hours later, she was enjoying rough sex in my bedroom. […]

Once you’ve cut off oxygen to her brain, she has about 3-5 seconds before passing out. During these three to five seconds, her sexual pleasure will increase immeasurably. […]

Once you start choking women, you’ll be addicted. Women love it, too. Choking is also a useful indicator of your strength as a man. If you are an alpha male, a woman will crave your domination and show of strength. If women do not regularly let you choke them, your game is weak. You are giving off a weak, beta male vibe and are lucky to be getting any sex at all. 

I don’t bring up this strangulation thing to kink-shame Cernovich or scaremonger about BDSM, but to highlight how Mike says every woman wants to be choked during sex because it’s a show of dominance. Choking a woman nearly to unconsciousness during sex is something Mike Cernovich likes doing a lot, because it reinforces his own feelings of being a dominant alpha male when he does it. He then declares that choking is a normal kind of sex play, and men who don’t do it are weak and beta.

Cernovich’s veneration of male dominance comes up again and again in ‘Danger and Play’. He lays out the importance of dominance mindset in “How To Become More Dominant in the Bedroom”:

Why do women want dominant men in the bedroom?

A real man is a violent one, and masculinity is nothing if not restrained aggression. Philosophers praise manly reason because it evidences self-control – that is, control of our own violent natures. To be a man is to be five seconds away from killing someone. […]

Upon the first sign of aggression, a dominant male moves with swiftness and aggression. A man must be able to go from zero to psycho in a split second.

There are tens of millions of good – which is to say, neutered – guys in America, and yet the best women consistently end up with dominant, strong, violent men. Women who cannot find alpha males seek other symbols of masculinity.

How many women have begun keeping pit bulls and other large dogs as pets. Women are so desperate for a little danger and play in their lives that they bring an inherently dangerous animal – an animal they can never tame – into their homes.

The question isn’t whether women want to be dominated. The question is whether you are man enough to dominate them. […]

What do women want? That’s easy – rough sex.

[…]

Women want to feel real desire. They want a man who grabs them and makes them feel small, vulnerable, and feminine.

Women want to feel that their man is playful but also that he is a little bit dangerous.

This means that domination starts with you. It’s your mindset that must prevail. You must have the mindset that she exits to serve you, that she exists for your pleasure.

[…]

Stop asking her what she wants, and start telling her what to do. Issuing commands. You are in charge. Here’s a quick way to learn how to take control and be more dominant in the bedroom.

You should be changing positions regularly during sex, as that will delay your orgasm. Before changing her position, tell her what to do next. Order her around the bedroom like you own her.

[…]

Right away you are telling her what to do, ordering her around, and telling her what all women want to hear – “You are a good girl.” You are setting the tone. She exists for your sexual pleasure. She exists to please you.

Most women are extremely turned up when a man tells them what to do. […]

“A real man is a violent one”, and “masculinity is nothing if not restrained aggression”? “To be a man is to be five seconds away from killing someone”? Dare I apply this logic to Cernovich himself – will he go “from zero to psycho” in a moment?

Mike writes: “The question isn’t whether women want to be dominated. The question is whether you are man enough to dominate them”. Only a “neutered” man has trouble with women, whom are always “extremely turned up” by the advances of a sufficiently alpha player-type guy, which Mike repeatedly asserts he is.

Mike writes: “[women] want a man who grabs them and makes them feel small, vulnerable, and feminine.”, and that men should “stop asking stop asking her what she wants, and start telling her what to do”. Consent and reciprocity are absent: “She exists for your sexual pleasure. She exists to please you.”

Then again, some people do enjoy this sort of thing. Cernovich’s second wife, Shauna, told The New Yorker that she met Mike when he grabbed her at a bar as an opening gambit. As reported in “Trolls for Trump”:

Mike and Shauna met in 2011, at a bar in Santa Monica. “He was pretty aggressive,” Shauna told me. “He grabbed my arm, pulled me into him, and said, ‘You fit nicely.’ ”

“It sounds creepy, but it looked less creepy in context,” Mike said.

“It worked,” Shauna said. “We were making out, like, five minutes later.”

Mike said that, when they started dating, “I didn’t take it seriously. But she just refused to go away, and now—”

“I’m married and pregnant!” Shauna said, smiling.

“And my life is over,” Mike said, half-smiling.

PUAs/Game players like Roosh and Mike carefully rehearse the first few things they will say and do to start up a conversation with a woman in a bar or a nightclub. What does it say about Mike’s pick-up strategy that even in the best possible scenario (making out 5 minutes later, married with kids now) he still concedes that this relationship-starter “sounds creepy, but it looked less creepy in context”?

However, I’m gonna cut Mike some slack for admitting to grabbing a woman he didn’t know in a bar by the arm; Shauna obviously forgave him and I’m not some bawling idiot who thinks being gently nudged by a stranger constitutes assault. But did every woman Mike tried this on react like Shauna did?

PUAs themselves concede that playing “the Game” frequently means getting rejected, and that the artistry lies in pushing people’s boundaries to flip more “no”s into “yes”es.  In this PUA field-report style blog, Mike describes an instance in which he exposed himself and tried to force his “date” to give him a hand job. When she refused, Mike claims that he jacked off in her car. It is titled When In Doubt, Whip It Out: 

We were in the back seat of her car hooking up. She let me pull her shirt up but wouldn’t let me take it off. She also wouldn’t let me take off her pants.

Anyone who has dated Indian girls know how annoying they are, and how hard they are to close. I knew this girl wasn’t going to let me fuck her in the back seat of her car, and that she was going to require some secret moves.

“My dick hurts,” I told her, as I unbuttoned my own jeans, exposing it to her. She looked at it but didn’t move.

“You aren’t just going to leave me like this, are you?” I pulled her hand towards me, but she pulled it back.

Indian girls are selfish teases, and she would have no problem leaving me hanging.

“Fine then. I’ll take care of it myself.”

I started playing with her tits, spit in my hand, and started masturbating.

She still wouldn’t join in the fun, but she wasn’t freaked out. “Don’t get any of this on my seat,” she told me as I was about to cum. […]

She drove me home, and parked her car, “I don’t want to risk a DUI,” she said, and walked upstairs with me.

The next morning I had one of those, “Does the notch count if…” discussions with my boy.

“Hey, man,” I asked, “Does it count if you get it halfway in, but can’t get it all the way in, because she’s too tight?”

“Ah, man, that’s a tough one. You had the intent. She had the intent, but you weren’t fully in.”

“Yeah, but I was halfway in. Do I gotta be balls deep? She told me she had only been with two other guys, and I believed her. My dick would only go halfway in before she started screaming in pain. I did like 3 or 4 half pumps. Does it count?”

“I don’t know. We should ask some other guys.”

How did I take a girl who had only had sex with two other guys – with a tight pussy to prove it – and get an arguable one night stand out of her? […]

Next time, don’t settle for the make out. If possible, at least pull out your dick. If you can get her to touch it, even better. If not, just let her know that your cock is too swollen to go back into your jeans, and that, “Either you’re taking care of this, or I am.”

Masturbating will set your anchor nearer the desired destination – pussy port.

When Mike writes: “She let me pull her shirt up but wouldn’t let me take it off. She also wouldn’t let me take off her pants. […] I knew this girl wasn’t going to let me fuck her in the back seat of her car,” “I pulled her hand towards [my exposed penis], but she pulled it back.” “Indian girls are selfish teases, and she would have no problem leaving me hanging.” It sounds like he knew she didn’t want to have sex, but decided to press his luck. His alpha male secret seduction move: “If possible, at least pull out your dick. If you can get her to touch it, even better.”

But when Mike starts jerking off in her car, he writes that his date didn’t respond: “She still wouldn’t join in the fun, but she wasn’t freaked out. ‘Don’t get any of this on my seat,’ she told me as I was about to cum.” This woman still doesn’t sound very into what he’s doing; just unwilling to try and stop him. So when Mike claims she asked to stay over because she “[didn’t] want to risk a DUI,” is it implied she changed her mind about having sex?

More remarkable is Mike’s morning after vignette, where he asks his PUA friend if he got his “notch” and brags about his date “screaming in pain” when he tried to penetrate her “tight pussy.” He got “like 3 or 4 half pumps.” Is that why she was so hesitant to screw Mike in her car? Is this what hot sex looks like to Mike?

Mike Cernovich has spent a good deal of time muddying the waters on what “rape” is – specifically, disputing whether date rape exists at all. “From Mike’s recent article “Why “Date Rape is Harmful Concept for Men and Women” [sic]:

Rape requires the use of force, and “date rape” does not exist as all rape is rape.

The entire concept of “date rape” is damaging to women and men.

Rape is rape, and some rapes aren’t lesser than others.

However the concept of “date rape” leads to a lot of false rape accusations, as sometimes sleazy behavior leads to sex.

  • Lying about being in love to sleep with someone isn’t rape.
  • Getting played isn’t rape.
  • Regret isn’t rape.
  • Thinking, “I might have been date raped,” means you weren’t raped.

Some have said you can have rape without force. This is wrong. Penetration requires force, and under the law a woman’s will has been overcome, and force has been used.

[…]

“Date rape” as a concept leads to false rape accusations. If you don’t view rape as a serious crime, then it’s easy to say that the guy who may have done something sleazy is a “date rapist.”

Rape is the easiest accusation to make and one of the hardest to disprove. How does a man prove he is not a rapist?

So, according to Mike, an act of rape requires the use of force. However, Mike’s also said: “The hotter the sex, the more closely it resembles rape.” On Roosh’s forum, Mike writes: “there’s no limit to the amount of violence women want.” So where does Mike draw the line between the kind of sex he likes to have and forcible sexual assault? What constitutes merely “sleazy behavior” for Mike, and what’s rape? Does the guy who boasts of having been involved in “at least 100 street fights” really know when to call stops? 

Mike Cernovich was himself accused of rape, an incident which he “”anonymously”” covered on his law blog in an article titled “Real Life Date Rape Case” . (Mike later admitted he was writing about his own case.)

In State v. Anonymous, the defendant went out drinking with the complaining witness (CW) and her best friend.  They drank most of the night.  Between the three of them, they drank less than 1/2 a bottle of Captain Morgan.  Around midnight, the defendant and CW had sex.

The defendant stayed overnight.  He left the next morning after the CW angrily told him to leave.  A review of police reports, private investigator reports, and medical reports revealed the following:

  • The complaining witness’ (CW’s) best friend was in the room – and conscious – during the sexual intercourse.
  • The friend told police that she, “heard kissing noises”; did not hear any “screams”; or other “unusual sounds”; and said: “I would have done something if I had though there was anything wrong.”
  • The CW, depending upon whom she was talking to, testified: “I was passed out the entire time”;  “I woke up but couldn’t move”; “I screamed”; “I tried fighting him off”; “I was in and out of consciousness”; “I was kind of aware but not really.”

[…]

Incidentally, there was substantial evidence indicating that the CW should not have been taken at her word […]

The medical reports revealed no physical trauma.  No signs of any vaginal tears or damage.  The examining physician said that the CW cracked jokes during the exam.

No ripped clothing.  No roofies or date-rape drugs.  No bruises.  No screams.  No one was saying no. In fact, according to the defendant, the CW initiated sexual contact.

The CW had shown her breasts earlier, asking the defendant if he liked them.  The CW also vaguely told police that she “sat on [the defendant’s] back.” (The defendant told police she was straddling the small of his back, grinding her vagina on it, after he had laid on his stomach to fall asleep.)  The CW’s best friend corroborated the defendant’s story.

Incidentally, the defendant said that he and the CW had been making out.  Police did not take a DNA swab of the CW.  Wouldn’t that have been relevant, exculpatory evidence?

The CW wanted to make it seem as if she feel asleep, only to awaken to a beast mounting her.  Why not run a DNA swab through her cheek, to see if she had the defendant’s post-French-kissing saliva?  The police, naturally, did no such investigation.  Proof that a police investigation is about confirming guilt rather than finding the truth.

After the complaint was made, the Special Victims Unit – tasked with people who are specially trained to believe rape victims – refused to file charges.  SVU prosecutors didn’t believe the CW.  They wouldn’t file.  That should have ended the case.

[…]

I’ve copied Mike’s side of the story for posterity and completeness’ sake, but I don’t trust what Mike wrote here to be a reliable account for two reasons. One, Mike Cernovich is a serial fibber prone to embellishment and misrepresentation, and he has every reason to lie about this incident in particular.  Two, one of Mike’s own law blog posts suggests he may have hired a private investigator to persuade the witness to the alleged sexual assault to testify in a manner suggesting Mike’s innocence. Also, he didn’t completely get away with it – despite putting a lot of money and brainpower towards his own legal defense, Mike did plead guilty to misdemeanor battery and was sentenced to community service.

I wasn’t on Cernovich’s drunken night out with two women which ended with him being accused of rape; however, it was obviously traumatic for Mike. It seems to have wrecked his bar exam plans and put his future as an attorney on indefinite hold. It seems evident that the topic of “false rape accusations” occupied a lot of bandwidth on Mike’s mind after that.

It even seems Mike Cernovich spent a while thinking about what he should have done differently that night to avoid getting charged with rape in the first place. He shared the fruits of these meditations in the form of a (now-deleted, but still archived) blog post titled “How to Avoid a False Rape Case”:

False rape accusations are common.

[…]

To avoid a false rape accusation, you must protect yourself at all times.

1. Avoid SJWs.

[…]

2. Film it.

[…]

3. Save your text messages.

[…]

 

4. Go out to breakfast.

Most girls do not want to falsely accuse you of rape. Usually they talk to a friend about sex. Then an SJW puts bad thoughts into her head. According to SJWs, consensual sex is rape if the girl has second thoughts on the next day.

Hanging out with the girl the next day will prevent SJWs from poisoning her mind against you. Also, it would lead a reasonable person to ask, “Why did the girl go out to breakfast with a man who raped her?”

[…]

5. Have her put on the condom.

This will ensure that her fingerprints are on the condom, which is evidence of consent. Unless you can’t save your condoms in a glass slide, ala Dexter, this is only short-term protection. Even if you’ve thrown the condom away, you can scare the shit out of her by claiming you still have it.

6. If she mentions “buyer’s remorse,” take her out for dinner, and do not see her again.

Imagine a girl calls you, telling you she feels “weird” about what happened. Beware. This girl could have Borderline Personality Disorder, and she may be prepared to falsely accuse you of rape.

Take her out in public. Show her a nice time. Have her smiling. Then go home – alone.

She will likely want to have sex with you again, but you must avoid women who are unstable. Only deal with stable, emotionally-sound women.

7. Never “be nice” if she expresses buyer’s remorse.

If a girl calls you the next day, keep in mind she may be recording the conversation, or the police may be monitoring it.

Most Special Victim’s Unit prosecutors and investigators will use this ploy on you:

“Girl calls the next day, telling you that what happened last night was “wrong.” She’ll demand an apology. You apologize. This apology is used as proof you raped her, even if she never directly claims you raped her.

She may instead say she felt “rushed” or “pressured.” These are red flags. Do not apologize. Instead, say,

“Well, we’re both adults. It’s sad we live in such a Puritanical society that hates sex. Last night was a great time, though, and I can’t wait to see you again.

8. If the police call, don’t answer.

Did you know that the police can lie to you? Did you know that the police will lie about what you tell them? Police will claim that you confessed to rape, even when you denied it to them.

NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE.

It’s a dangerous world out there, guys. Be vigilant. Protect yourselves at all time.

Number Four, “take her out to breakfast”, gets me every time I read it. Oh, so Mike would take a hook-up out to breakfast the following day, but only to establish an alibi to cover up the sex thing he did the night before which he fears she might press charges over!! And don’t forget – “NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE.” Is this how an innocent man thinks!?

Mike Cernovich deleted that last post from Danger and Play, perhaps because he agrees with me it makes him look like a date rapist whose only regret is having been caught. When Mike selected vintage Danger and Play posts for his e-book “Danger and Play: Essays on Masculinity”, these essays were notably absent from the oeuvre. What did make it in was this brief listicle titled “How To Get Out of The Friend Zone”,  which relates that “men and women aren’t designed to be friends … be a lion, not a vulture.” What does that make women? Antelope?

Mike Cernovich is still ostensibly an attorney, and I am still ostensibly working under the threat he might sue me for writing about him. Because of that I would conclude by saying: I have no evidence Mike Cernovich raped anyone in the incident he described on his law blog or on any other date. But what I do have is a reasonable doubt.

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