MRAs of Savage Love: Seandr, the asshole from Seattle

Posted by idledillettante

Well it finally seems like that Quinnspiracy thing is simmering down. #gamergate’s been discredited, Zoe Quinn’s back to making games, and Eron Gjoni is still (*still*) defending himself/pining away at his Twitter account. The FBI is on the case, and all’s right in the world.

But a woman’s work is never done; and that goes double when the work in question is writing about misogyny. So we’re back with the next installment of my little series “MRAs of Savage Love”, documenting their sexist, faptastic and often off-topic advice.

Before I begin, you might be asking “But Idle, why waste your valuable writing time on these douchebags? It’s just the comments thread; any idiot can write any foolish thing there. Dan Savage himself usually gives great advice.”

Dear reader, you’d be right: as MRAs go, those on Savage Love are neither particularly caustic or obvious in their prejudice against women. It’s more “yes but” and “if only she…” kind of sexism, the soft-sell where it seems like the advice giver is really doing their best thinking. (Also the Stranger might ban them if they called women “cunts”.) Paradoxically, this makes SLMRAs insidious, because actual women have been known to actually write Dan looking for advice about boyfriends who behave in a manner these shitlords condone.

My concern is that a woman writing Dan for advice might actually read what these jerks are writing her, and not knowing any better take it to heart; and rethink leaving that abusive alcoholic, or the man who torments them by bringing up their sexual history. Heaven forbid these people writing letters in good faith might actually think this faptastic, wrong-headed ‘advice’ is actually useful in some way. To these jerks, the actual problems of LWs are twisted around the warped image of sex&gender they carry around in their heads. That’s why I write about these winners.

This brings us to today’s guest: a delightful fellow named seandr. IRL, seandr seems like the kind of guy who seems alright until you invite him to the neighborhood block party; but once he gets a few drinks in him reveals himself to be that guy. (The one who makes eyes at lesbians, and talks about “the wife” (his wife) as if she’s a soft furnishing.)

About half the time he gives what I’d call ‘faptastic’ advice, like this advice he gave to an uncircumcised man who comes too soon: (as always, the bold is my emphasis)

UNCUT: You’re 20. I could only last 3 minutes or so when I was a youth in my first LTR. Next woman I slept with, I could suddenly last as long as I wanted. The intervening dry spell and being with a new partner seemed to allow my brain to break out of the pattern that had been established in the previous relationship.

Enjoy your sensitive dick – it’s a gift. The solution to your problem lies somewhere in your head. With luck, you’ll eventually stumble upon it.

P.S. I’ve found talking during sex allows me to fight back untimely orgasms. Dirty talk, clean talk, or words of encouragement if she’s close to coming. Maybe that or something similar will enable you to pull yourself out of your head when you feel one coming on.

Is it the advice the reader asked for? Yes. It’s also an excuse for seandr to play show and tell with his penis and discuss all the sex he has with women. You wonder if he’s compensating for something?

But that couldn’t be. Seandr gets all the sex, because he talks about it even when his sex life isn’t the topic at hand. Here, he turns a discussion about Ray Rice into one about how his girlfriends all beat him:

At the start of the video she backhands him in the face, and she was coming at him again when he hit her. I guess we’re just gong to pretend those things didn’t happen?

A man should never hit a woman under any circumstances. But a woman should never hit a man. It’s hard for me to cast a woman like Janay as “battered victim” when she obviously feels entitled to hit him whenever the whim strikes.

I’ve experienced a number of domestic violence incidents in my life, all at the hands of my female partners. I’ve been clubbed in the back of the head (in public!) with a backpack full of books while trying to walk away from an argument. I’ve been surprise attacked with a volley of punches while sitting at my desk working, and another time while I was sleeping. Yes, sleeping. I’ve been shoved. I’ve had a book thrown at me. I’ve been blocked from exiting rooms.

Apparently, like Janay’s backhand, those incidents don’t really count.

Apparently in seandr’s world, having a book thrown at you or being prevented from leaving a room is comparable to being cold-cocked by a person fifty pounds heavier than you. Glad we cleared that up.

And seandr would know about starting catfights; even the lesbos want a piece of him!

@seatackled: I see. So I deserved to be attacked by my girlfriends because one night a lesbian friend and I flirted and made googly eyes at each other?

Please, do the right thing and remove yourself from the dating pool.

To which I say: cool story, bro. But don’t let my write-up make you think seandr hasn’t got any humility:

@seatackled: you gave no reason for anyone to think that there’s any verbal expression of consent.

Consent for what? Enjoying each other’s company? Laughing at each other’s jokes? Appreciating a moment of mutual attraction? What in the fuck are you talking about?

If you’ve never had the experience of gazing into the eyes of a woman who’s been taken in by your charm, bummer for you.

The irony here is that I am the King of not approaching women who have given me obvious indications of interest. Something about that dynamic makes me very nervous. In fact, on many occasions, women have lost patience with my inaction and taken matters into their own hands (although most of them just give up).

There are many more kinds of men in the world than you seem to think there are.

Have you, seandr? Had ‘the experience of gazing into the eyes of a woman who’s been taken in (nice passive) by your charms’, that is? Or do you just stare at them, livid with jealousy? Because there’s something weird how he writes as if the letter writers are not having sex with other people, but with him:

@LavaGirl: And you say it’s her problem for having limits and it makes her bad in bed?

A woman can set whatever limits she wants around her sexual repertoire, but I’m not going to give her a medal just for showing up.

He also has the charming habit of calling women who disagree with him “babe”, as if they too are dating him. This is why seandr’s an MRA: the way he puts down women (both LWs, commenters, and those in the public eye) his relentless opining about his own sex life & sexual history belie the premise that he sees women as his equals, and not as living sex toys for his consumption.

As an example, let’s look at this post where seandr discusses porn and feminism (the double whammy!) There’s even mansplaining!

@LavaGirl: you lump Feminism with the Tea Party?

I haven’t “lumped” anything. I’ve simply named them both, along with Christianity, as examples of doctrine.

” irrational biases” you say, about what?

Women who hate men, for example, can find ideas that resonate in some feminist writing. Of course, this example only works if you believe that hating men is an irrational bias.

You think porn shows men how to treat women as they want to be treated ?

Huh? Sorry, babe, but given the endless variety of women out there, there’s really no such thing as How Women Want To Be Treated. In fact, I don’t think I’ve had sex with two women who wanted to be treated exactly the same way. Of course, you’d have to be the sort of person who fucks women to know this.

There’s also an endless variety of porn out there, and the savvy porn consumer can definitely borrow ideas to enhance his woman’s pleasure. Many times I’ve sat in front of the computer, dick in hand, watching a scene and thinking “Hmm, that’s interesting, I wonder if she’d enjoy that.” Sometimes she has.

Finally, I’ve been with women who were turned on by their ability to turn me on, and porn has definitely helped me identify what turns me on.

Hmm. I can’t decide which mental image he’s provided with sums him up better: seandr as the guy in front of a computer beating off; or seandr, the guy who repeatedly reminds you he has sex with women. His casual condescension is so irritating that part of me isn’t surprised that his *numerous* girlfriends have a tendency to lose their shit and want to beat him senseless. If I had the misfortune of dating this oppositional, mansplaining jerk I might lose my shit too.

– Caroline.

Eron Gjoni’s Involvement in #burgersandfries: The First Interview

Posted by idledillettante

Introduction from ID: I realize that this article is very long, but much of it is quotations of the chat logs. I’m quoting them very closely because I do not want to be accused of twisting Gjoni’s words; I want them to stand out on their own.

“But if you’re shooting for the tax fraud route I don’t know how good that will look from a PR standpoint.” – Eron Gjoni

Hello Readers;

When last I left you, we had just seen my dossier for one Eron Gjoni. Now we’re going to look at his involvement in the #burgersandfries IRC chat log. Since it’s huge, I browsed it for key phrases with Ctrl+f, and indicate editing with ellipsis (…) and one row of blank space. Most of the ellipsis are cutting out notifications of diverse audience members entering and leaving the chat room during Gjoni’s interview(s).

For example, by searching the phrase “Eron know”, I can find out what #burgersandfries thinks Eron knows, or what the user (foolishly named “Eron_GJ”) knows. To prove my point, see here where Eron Gjoni verifies his identity, proving this is the real Eron on the end of the line:

Aug 24 20.08.20 *	Eron_G (qwebirc@Rizon-415CCBCC.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com) has joined #burgersandfries
...
Aug 24 20.08.30 <Eron_G>	hey gang
Aug 24 20.08.33 <PaperDinosaur>	Hi
Aug 24 20.08.40 <enig>	dubs was spamming images but hey, it had the game aspect to balance it out
Aug 24 20.08.59 <Eron_G>	So I heard we're talking about my ex.
Aug 24 20.09.01 <PaperDinosaur>	Assuming you're real could you throw us a tumblr post up to confirm it please?
Aug 24 20.09.05 <Eron_G>	sure
...

Aug 24 20.09.08 <Josh_>	Wait
Aug 24 20.09.09 <LesboRobo>	we are
Aug 24 20.09.13 <LesboRobo>	lets talk about her
Aug 24 20.09.13 <Josh_>	is this the real Eron?
Aug 24 20.09.16 <LesboRobo>	about Zoe
Aug 24 20.09.17 <Josh_>	comfirmed?
Aug 24 20.09.20 <LesboRobo>	yes
Aug 24 20.09.24 <Josh_>	horyshti
Aug 24 20.09.27 <Josh_>	welcum
Aug 24 20.09.33 <Eron_G>	posted
Aug 24 20.09.34 <Josh_>	:^)
Aug 24 20.09.42 <Eron_G>	on tumblr
Aug 24 20.09.42 <LesboRobo>	Zoe wants to ruin gaming
Aug 24 20.09.56 <Eron_G>	deleting in like 30 secs
Aug 24 20.09.58 <PaperDinosaur>	Confirmed
Aug 24 20.10.01 <Josh_>	links
Aug 24 20.10.02 <PaperDinosaur>	It says "it's me"
Aug 24 20.10.02 <Eron_G>	cool
Aug 24 20.10.04 <Cyberserker>	.voice Eron_G
Aug 24 20.10.04 *	GeorgeWashington gives voice to Eron_G
Aug 24 20.10.28 <Cyberserker>	You are now +v to distinguish from the plebeians 
...

It’s quite the “hatebox” that gives chatters +v status within moments of their arrival. But as you see, Eron Gjoni was actually an honored guest. It seems that the organizers of the #burgersandfries chatroom were interested in whether the “devilishly attractive beta cuck” had any more information they could weaponize against Quinn. Earlier that morning, the skeleton shift of #burgersandfries were theorizing about what “Eron know(s)”. I’ve bolded parts of the conversation for emphasis.

Aug 24 01.53.04 <Cameralady>	zoe's past is irrelevant to everything
Aug 24 01.53.12 <Cameralady>	we need info on her current connections
Aug 24 01.53.15 <DarkHiero>	^
Aug 24 01.53.19 <Josh_>	Zoe Quinn confirmed for Chelsea Van Valkenburg, but, yeah, what Camera said
Aug 24 01.53.22 <DarkHiero>	tl;dr Zoe had a shit life
Aug 24 01.53.27 <DarkHiero>	Whatever
Aug 24 01.53.35 <Headsmash_>	I wonder if Eron knows anything about this
Aug 24 01.53.39 <DarkHiero>	I'm not surprised but it doesn't help much.
Aug 24 01.53.40 <Cameralady>	he does
Aug 24 01.53.42 <DarkHiero>	And he prob does.
Aug 24 01.53.46 <Josh_>	Zoe confirmed for Dio?
Aug 24 01.53.48 <Headsmash_>	He added me on skype last night
Aug 24 01.53.51 <Cameralady>	he censored a lot of it in the initial dump
Aug 24 01.53.54 <Headsmash_>	Maybe I could ask?

In his first interview, Eron is treated like a bit of an internet celebrity. And Eron rather acts like one.

Aug 24 20.10.54 <DarkHiero>	Is that Eron?
Aug 24 20.11.01 <Eron_G>	yes it's Eron
Aug 24 20.11.02 <Cyberserker>	Yes
Aug 24 20.11.02 *	CIA (cgiirc@Rizon-CBDEB3A9.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #burgersandfries
Aug 24 20.11.05 <Cyberserker>	Eron_G is Eron
Aug 24 20.11.15 <CIA>	ERON?
Aug 24 20.11.18 <Josh_>	kk
Aug 24 20.11.20 <LesboRobo>	yes
Aug 24 20.11.20 *	CIA is now known as Guest21235
Aug 24 20.11.22 <Cyberserker>	Eron_G: Did you know your name is an anagram for Join Goner?
Aug 24 20.11.30 <Josh_>	kek
Aug 24 20.11.36 <maximumtacos>	Eron you have the name that people misspell my name as all the time
Aug 24 20.11.40 <Eron_G>	Cyberserker: yes, obviously
...
Aug 24 20.11.50 <LesboRobo>	Why did Zoe move to SF?
Aug 24 20.11.51 <Cyberserker>	hahaha
...
Aug 24 20.12.04 <Cyberserker>	It's not actual talking
Aug 24 20.12.05 <Uncle>	Yo
Aug 24 20.12.05 <Canyew>	I didn't know that thank you
Aug 24 20.12.07 <Uncle>	So uh
Aug 24 20.12.08 <Uncle>	http://i.4cdn.org/lgbt/1408251574787.jpg
Aug 24 20.12.10 <Eron_G>	LesboRobo: I don't think she's moved quite yet
Aug 24 20.12.12 <Guest21235>	what's up my man Eron? How are you holding up?
Aug 24 20.12.14 <Zladko>	Canyew: plug in a mic
Aug 24 20.12.16 <Uncle>	This just fucking happened
Aug 24 20.12.18 <Zladko>	fucking retard
Aug 24 20.12.22 <maximumtacos>	uncle it happened days ago
Aug 24 20.12.26 <invasionone>	she left canada for the game jam
Aug 24 20.12.26 <PaperDinosaur>	Guys, we actually have someone useful here, please stop sht posting. He was kind enough to join us, so lets actually make use of it 
Aug 24 20.12.35 <Uncle>	Oh
Aug 24 20.12.36 <Sissis>	Speaking of which, fuck the CWCki forums faggots.
Aug 24 20.12.40 <Cyberserker>	Yes, please
Aug 24 20.12.41 <Eron_G>	Guest21235: Not bad. Cannot tell you how much better I feel after posting that thing.
Aug 24 20.12.45 <Zladko>	im a professional shitposter
Aug 24 20.12.46 <Zladko>	suck my dick

Wow, he gets anagrams, sympathetic messages and the distinction of being “someone useful.” When the 4chan chatroom threatens to turn into the shitshow 4chan chatrooms generally do, the admins are effective in policing their community to stay on topic. Provided, of course that the topic is Zoe Quinn, female game designer.

Aug 24 20.12.49 <Cyberserker>	GW will kick you if you derail right now
Aug 24 20.13.00 <Cyberserker>	And by GW I mean me disguised as GW
Aug 24 20.13.11 <GeorgeWashington>	yo
Aug 24 20.13.16 <Guest21235>	Eron_G well i'm happy for you mate, it's good that you found some peace after all you've been trough
Aug 24 20.13.23 <Verdigris>	i will not be as kind and do it myself, so watch out
Aug 24 20.13.43 <nuoo2>	I was wondering because SF is expensive and her only game is free to play on Steam
Aug 24 20.13.46 <Eron_G>	I take it you've all read the latest post btw, on the personal blog?

Personal blog? Oh do tell, Eron. Was it a sad poem, about how much you miss your ex? Maybe an apology that this hate machine is ramming her at full throttle already? Are you going to try and sway its course, like you say you did in your most recent blog post?

Aug 24 20.13.53 <Josh_>	I didn't
Aug 24 20.13.54 <Josh_>	Link?
Aug 24 20.13.55 <DarkHiero>	Yeah, I read it.
...
Aug 24 20.14.04 <maximumtacos>	Yes and congratulations on positioning yourself well
Aug 24 20.14.06 <DarkHiero>	Are you refering to the one yesterday?
Aug 24 20.14.14 <Guest21235>	http://thezoepost.wordpress.com/ this one?
Aug 24 20.14.17 <Cyberserker>	I read that long one, yes
Aug 24 20.14.22 <Eron_G>	Honestly I'm a bit amused at this point. There are some SJs trying to twist the new post into an anti SJ thing

Did I misread that? Eron is amused? He gets “congratulations on positioning yourself well” ? But the malice on Gjoni’s part doesn’t end there.

Aug 24 20.14.52 <PaperDinosaur>	Eron_G, not asking for a target but is there someone important we maybe missing in this whole thing? Someone you know would be useful to find, but we haven't yet?
Aug 24 20.15.01 <Eron_G>	and a lot of people on pol and r9k were also twisting thezoepost into an antisj thing
Aug 24 20.15.10 *	Sissis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
Aug 24 20.15.10 <Eron_G>	apparently everything I say needs to be an antisj thing
Aug 24 20.15.15 *	Zoextermantor (cgiirc@Rizon-987FB40C.pvoce702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) has joined #burgersandfries
Aug 24 20.15.25 <Eron_G>	PaperDinosaur: Hmm. 
Aug 24 20.15.36 <temet>	so
Aug 24 20.15.42 <MuhNicknaem>	Should we be concerned about her potentially being part of a rich and powerful family?
Aug 24 20.15.55 <Eron_G>	MuhNicknaem: no, you should not be concerned about that
Aug 24 20.16.06 <maximumtacos>	Eron can you confirm that she isn't even related to that rich family
...
Aug 24 20.16.43 <PaperDinosaur>	http://jesusfuck.me/di/4G81/proof.png This is the proof that it's the real Eron, I have a full screencap saved, but he posted that when I asked
Aug 24 20.16.48 *	gonzo72_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
Aug 24 20.16.56 <Eron_G>	maximumtacos: I cannot confirm or deny anything that might increase doxxing odds unfortunately
...

Aug 24 20.17.28 <maximumtacos>	I understand.. if there's only two possibly family options that she can be from, confirming one isn't her just confirms the other is
Aug 24 20.17.29 *	Sissis (~Sissis@Rizon-C50BF9B.nowhere-else.org) has joined #burgersandfries
...
Aug 24 20.17.37 *	gonzo72_ (~gonzo@Rizon-7307E9C1.try.wideopenwest.com) has joined #burgersandfries
Aug 24 20.17.40 <maximumtacos>	I wish you would tell us but I respect that you won't
Aug 24 20.17.54 <LesboRobo>	I agree. focus on the friends
Aug 24 20.17.55 <invasionone>	you have any idea of the legitimacy of the Phil Fish hacks?
Aug 24 20.17.55 <LesboRobo>	not the family

That sounds like a statement a lawyer would tell you to make. What a paragon of protection and privacy he is. Such a confidential ex-boyfriend. And look how respectfully the trolls bow out on say, harassing Gjoni day and night until he tells them what they want to hear. But that’s not truly necessary, because Eron’s really on their side. He’s just being careful here, but is perfectly willing to participate in the internet campaign to harass her, and her friends. Make no mistake that despite what Gjoni claims on his personal blog, the purpose of #burgersandfries was essentially that of a character assassination of an individual.

Aug 24 20.18.54 <maximumtacos>	Was that mugging she experienced real?
...
Aug 24 20.19.58 *	akiyuki_shinbo (sh@f.t) has joined #burgersandfries
Aug 24 20.19.58 <Eron_G>	maximumtacos: likely real. She lives in a shitty part of town, and has been using her passport as ID ever since
...
Aug 24 20.20.09 <MuhNicknaem>	since you've, to an extent, been on the "inside", is there anything that comes to mind on the topic of helping others speak out? there's a lot of intimidation going around.
Aug 24 20.20.22 *	Cyberserker has changed the topic to: The Zoe Quinnspiracy Channel, home of the Stinking Abattoirs | Uncensored Discussion: https://8chan.co/burgers/ | LATESTÂ NEWS:Â Eron_G, the ex-boyfriend is here talking | Remember to post the IRC in /pol/ and /r9k/ threads
...
Aug 24 20.20.38 <PaperDinosaur>	Can someone make a thread please, we don't have an active one

For example, Gjoni’s willing to confirm that Quinn probably not lying when she said she was mugged. Even though “maxiumtacos” doesn’t really believe that. And there’s a direct statement there in the chatroom topic that connects the IRC board #burgersandfries to 4chan proper, just now. /pol/ and /r9k/ are 4chan boards. Some more follows in the mentions of “making a thread”.

Aug 24 20.20.38 <PaperDinosaur>	Can someone make a thread please, we don't have an active one
Aug 24 20.20.42 *	invasionone has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
Aug 24 20.20.43 <Eron_G>	MuhNicknaem: urgh. Honestly I'm really not having a lot of luck on that front. And basically the harassment is making it worse
Aug 24 20.20.44 <foTTS>	well shit Eron_G ?
Aug 24 20.20.47 <Canyew>	Eron_G get comfortable this is going to go all night
Aug 24 20.20.51 *	invasionone (cgiirc@Rizon-EE4F38BD.dhcp-dynamic.fibreop.nl.bellaliant.net) has joined #burgersandfries
Aug 24 20.20.55 <Cameralady>	when'd you start hanging out in here teloch
Aug 24 20.20.55 <maximumtacos>	eron_g you don't think it's possible that she was that dedicated to the ruse that she just threw out her ID, and then had the bonus of showing how wordly and travelled she is every time she has to show ID?
Aug 24 20.20.56 <foTTS>	Shit, it really is happening
Aug 24 20.20.57 <Cyberserker>	Put the IRC in the OP
Aug 24 20.20.59 <Eron_G>	Canyew: will get comfortable. But
Aug 24 20.21.00 <The_Remover>	Hey,do you think she has BPD Eron?
Aug 24 20.21.01 *	Cyberserker rubs hands
...
Aug 24 20.21.11 <rd0952>	wait eron is in here?
Aug 24 20.21.14 <rd0952>	that little shit
...
Aug 24 20.21.16 <Eron_G>	NO ONE ASK ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE NEXT 10 MINUTES BECAUSE I'M GOING OUT FOR A SMOKE
Aug 24 20.21.16 <Cameralady>	welcome
Aug 24 20.21.17 <temet>	Well, this is the honor isn't it.
Aug 24 20.21.17 <The_Remover>	yes, rd
Aug 24 20.21.20 <foTTS>	dammit Cyberserker, stop merchanting
Aug 24 20.21.22 <rd0952>	jesus christ
Aug 24 20.21.23 <Eron_G>	bbiab
Aug 24 20.21.27 <akiyuki_shinbo>	ERON WHAT BRAND DO YOU SMOKE

akiyuki_shinbo is either trying to sound like a fanboy, or he is a total Eron Gjoni fanboy. But the whole room comes alive with the mention of Eron taking a smoke break, so I’m inclined to think this is the bad boy internet celebrity doing his thing here.

Aug 24 20.21.35 *	Sissis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
Aug 24 20.21.36 <maximumtacos>	I have been following this closely and 90% of the harassment posts on /pol/ are shouted down as shills trying to make good screenshots for a pro-Zoe article
Aug 24 20.21.36 *	Cyberserker has changed the topic to: The Zoe Quinnspiracy Channel, home of the Stinking Abattoirs | Uncensored Discussion: https://8chan.co/burgers/ | LATESTÂ NEWS:Â Eron_G, the ex-boyfriend is here SMOKING | Remember to post the IRC in /pol/ and /r9k/ threads

When Eron returns, the format of the interview changes, so that one admin sends him questions aggregated from the group. While he’s gone, the anons shush each other not to tell the rest of 4chan, for fear of flooding the chatroom with “is that really Eron”? comments, like the kind I’ve been editing out with ellipsis (…).

Eron Gjoni is perfectly willing to discuss Zoe Quinn’s work history,

Aug 24 20.26.55 <Cyberserker>	Going into +m when Eron_G returns. If you want to ask a question to him, PM a Channel Operator.
Aug 24 20.26.56 <Eron_G>	Alright, back
Aug 24 20.27.00 <Eron_G>	what'd I miss?
Aug 24 20.27.00 <Cameralady>	wb
Aug 24 20.27.01 <Judge_Komarov>	oh shit.
Aug 24 20.27.02 <rd0952>	 Is Zoe a cyber lizard?
Aug 24 20.27.06 *	Cyberserker sets mode +m #burgersandfries
Aug 24 20.27.10 <Eron_G>	rd0952: yes.
Aug 24 20.27.11 <Cyberserker>	Alright
Aug 24 20.27.20 <Cyberserker>	Now we are in a mode where only users of rank can talk
Aug 24 20.27.20 *	Guest24122 has quit ()
Aug 24 20.27.25 <Cyberserker>	People will PM me to ask you questions
Aug 24 20.27.30 <Cyberserker>	I will tell you them
Aug 24 20.27.32 *	MarvTS (cgiirc@Rizon-B33F1F49.range86-134.btcentralplus.com) has joined #burgersandfries
Aug 24 20.27.32 <Eron_G>	cool
Aug 24 20.27.47 <Eron_G>	would like to give an opportunity for general banter too in a bit though
...
Aug 24 20.28.22 <Cyberserker>	That can happen in a bit
Aug 24 20.28.31 <Cyberserker>	Alright
Aug 24 20.28.36 <Cyberserker>	First question
Aug 24 20.28.53 <Cyberserker>	Cameralady: can you ask him for what he knows about the failed game jam, and zoe's rebel jam?
...
Aug 24 20.29.30 <Eron_G>	TFYC or Game_Jam?
Aug 24 20.29.36 <Cyberserker>	Game_Jam
Aug 24 20.29.46 <Eron_G>	So, the story behind game jam
Aug 24 20.29.54 <Eron_G>	is that she really didn't like the contract terms
Aug 24 20.29.58 <Eron_G>	prior to the show
Aug 24 20.30.04 <Eron_G>	and with good reason, they were shit terms
Aug 24 20.30.13 <Eron_G>	so she called a bunch of her friends
Aug 24 20.30.26 <Eron_G>	and told them to refuse to do the show unless the terms were changed
Aug 24 20.30.26 *	mib_8a5jm5 (cgiirc@Rizon-5703AF15.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #burgersandfries
Aug 24 20.30.39 <Eron_G>	the reason 
...
Aug 24 20.30.55 *	soda (cgiirc@Rizon-2038990E.dyn.estpak.ee) has joined #burgersandfries
Aug 24 20.30.56 <Eron_G>	was that she was worried about her image. and the terms as they stood allowed the show to misrepresent her
Aug 24 20.31.12 <Eron_G>	a bunch of people were fine with the terms because they didn't have an image to uphold
Aug 24 20.31.30 <Eron_G>	but in any case, she renegotiated them by forming a union of friends
Aug 24 20.31.38 <Eron_G>	which meant she went into it with a union of friends
Aug 24 20.31.46 <Eron_G>	and the rest -- I can show you the chat logs
Aug 24 20.31.49 <Eron_G>	just a second
...
Aug 24 20.34.03 <Cyberserker>	Currently waiting for Eron to show chat logs about Game_Jam, new people.

Aug 24 20.34.32 <Eron_G>	sorry that took so long
Aug 24 20.34.34 <Eron_G>	http://i.imgur.com/TykJjwC.png

How many chat logs does Eron Gjoni keep, man? And why is he showing us evidence of good negotiation skills on Quinn’s part as some kind of character flaw? He himself just agreed that they were “shit terms” for the contract. Why not unionize the programmers and sue for better ones? And Eron, for whatever reason, seems to make a hobby of mining his chat clients for conversations that pertain to Zoe Quinn. Was he reading them in his spare time or something? How else would he know so precisely what was and was not discussed over social media over the entire course of a relationship with another person? And why is he so willing to admit he’s high as fuck to do it? But it’s good that he has such screengrabs, since the format of IRC prevents excessive copy pasting. Apparently #burgersandfries is a trusted party to Eron Gjoni:

Aug 24 20.34.47 <Eron_G>	I guess maybe I should just assume trust and copy paste text
Aug 24 20.34.56 <Cyberserker>	Don't do that
Aug 24 20.34.59 <Cyberserker>	The bot will kick you
Aug 24 20.35.04 <Cyberserker>	And there's no proof that way
Aug 24 20.35.13 *	snipars (cgiirc@Rizon-B4C4573F.dsl.dyn.telnor.net) has joined #burgersandfries
Aug 24 20.35.17 *	zet (cgiirc@Rizon-3E34B95D.nycap.res.rr.com) has left #burgersandfries
Aug 24 20.35.18 <Eron_G>	alright. so basically, her and the guy who covered it are very close friends
Aug 24 20.35.34 <Eron_G>	I remember her telling me she personally phoned him in, but I may have been mistaken on that point 
Aug 24 20.35.51 *	Guest19088 (~null@12CD32CB.F40A0E1A.E126FA6C.IP) has left #burgersandfries
Aug 24 20.35.52 *	adwrz (~bm@Rizon-AF8B6BD2.vnet-inc.com) has joined #burgersandfries
Aug 24 20.35.57 <Eron_G>	(also, note this conversation is like the day she cheated on me with Robin) 
Aug 24 20.36.00 <Eron_G>	anyway
Aug 24 20.36.03 <Eron_G>	as a response to this 
...
Aug 24 20.36.09 <Eron_G>	She set up rebel jam
Aug 24 20.36.10 *	llamla (~null@12CD32CB.F40A0E1A.E126FA6C.IP) has joined #burgersandfries
Aug 24 20.36.12 *	Cyberserker has kicked BenedictArnold from #burgersandfries (BenedictArnold)
Aug 24 20.36.24 <Eron_G>	almost right off the bat she got funding from Cards Against Humanity
Aug 24 20.36.26 *	Acid_Reflux has quit ()
Aug 24 20.36.34 *	precisioN (~precision@Rizon-274AC5F3.cable.teksavvy.com) has joined #burgersandfries
Aug 24 20.36.38 *	antonizoon (cgiirc@Rizon-95647FF0.public.wayport.net) has joined #burgersandfries
Aug 24 20.36.46 <Eron_G>	Youtube is sponsoring with a jam location
Aug 24 20.37.00 *	mib_gupize has quit ()
Aug 24 20.37.07 <Eron_G>	A few big names were attached, and I won't mention them
Aug 24 20.37.19 <Eron_G>	but, one of them got SyFy interested in airing it
Aug 24 20.37.33 <Eron_G>	but she decided against letting SyFy air it, because it would kill the image
Aug 24 20.37.33 *	ozymil (cgiirc@Rizon-868A4249.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #burgersandfries
Aug 24 20.37.44 *	HerrDoktor (~HerrDokto@Rizon-3CD89AAD.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) has joined #burgersandfries
Aug 24 20.37.46 <Eron_G>	Any follow ups to that question?
Aug 24 20.38.19 <Cyberserker>	No
Aug 24 20.38.27 <Cyberserker>	Next question is from DTrig
Aug 24 20.38.33 <Cyberserker>	"Is Eron still in any form of communication with Zoe?"
Aug 24 20.38.49 <Cyberserker>	Stop PMing me for a bit, everyone
Aug 24 20.38.52 <Cyberserker>	There's a long long line
Aug 24 20.38.54 <Eron_G>	I am not. All communication has been indirect and passive aggressive

“Stop PMing me everyone, there’s a long line.” That would tend to discredit the notion that there are only a handful individuals in the chatroom, and I’ve left data about people coming and going to prove that this is a highly trafficed room, even though only a few people have the ability to comment during this interview. It’s kind of like a talk show, in that there’s a whole audience watching Eron, and the user Cyberserker is the talk show host. But apart from the unrelated tidbit about Quinn allegedly cheating on Gjoni with a certain “Robin”, I’m not sure how any of this is supposed to make Zoe look bad.

Aug 24 20.39.18 <Cyberserker>	Okay
Aug 24 20.39.23 <Cyberserker>	Next is from The_Remover
Aug 24 20.39.32 <Cyberserker>	"Ask him if Zoe shows any signs of BPD. She seems like the kind of person who would have it. Also, let him know we already have doxx, and we don't want to use it, "
Aug 24 20.39.38 <Eron_G>	To help communication. I will denote that an answer is finished with ^^^
Aug 24 20.40.07 <Cyberserker>	Sure
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Aug 24 20.40.37 <Eron_G>	I'm averse to the armchair psychoanalysis. But there are symptoms I am censoring which would make BPD either less likely, or simply comorbid with other things. ^^^

In this statement it seems like Eron’s implying there’s loads more worse stuff he could say, although who know’s if that’s true. His last log was a little weak, so maybe he’s pretending to have secrets he keeps for Zoe Quinn. He’s got no problem naming Zoe’s friends and other ex-boyfriends, which makes it seem like he doesn’t much care if they’re harassed or not. Contrary to Gjoni’s claims, he does little to steer the discussion in a positive, gamer-ethics related direction.

Aug 24 20.41.03 <Cyberserker>	Okay
Aug 24 20.41.14 <Cyberserker>	Next is from excellen
Aug 24 20.41.20 <Cyberserker>	"ask why her paypal is in the name of Patrick Lindsey maybe?"
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Aug 24 20.42.01 <Eron_G>	Patrick Lindsey is her ex-boyfriend. They worked on Depression Quest together.
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Aug 24 20.42.28 <Eron_G>	No one remembers him because no one harassed him. Likely because no one harasses white guys who don't act like Phil Fish ^^
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Aug 24 20.42.50 <Cyberserker>	"Why was there such a massive and disproportionate wave of censorship, how was she able to mobilize censorship on so many websites, what are they afraid of? Are they afraid because of misdeeds of a financial or criminal nature?"
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Aug 24 20.43.39 <Eron_G>	I think it was a mixture of things. But I think this question is better left for the general banter portion, when people can respond as a group ^^^

Aug 24 20.44.23 <Cyberserker>	All right
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Aug 24 20.44.36 <Cyberserker>	Next is from Judge_Komarov 
Aug 24 20.44.56 <Cyberserker>	about the paypal for the game jam going directly to her, does he know anything about that?
Aug 24 20.45.05 <Cyberserker>	In quotes
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Aug 24 20.45.39 <Eron_G>	 I'm not sure. And he won't talk to me. Though I'm in contact with people who know him closely. 
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Aug 24 20.45.47 <Eron_G>	I think it's most likely that he just happened to sign up for the account
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Aug 24 20.45.51 <Eron_G>	for them both to use
Aug 24 20.45.59 <Eron_G>	and she just continued using it after they broke up.
Aug 24 20.46.01 <Eron_G>	^^^

It seems like answering questions about the details of Quinn’s Paypal account is not promoting or breaking up nepotism in the games industry, like Eron is allegedly in the chatroom for, and what he writes on his blog he was doing here. So, Gjoni, how does answering questions about the precise workings of someone’s Paypal account help fight the good fight, in the sense of general activism? Because it sounds more like something an identity thief would discuss. And if you’re wondering what all those ellipsis are, it’s traffic in the chatroom; i.e. people coming and going.

Aug 24 20.46.35 <Cyberserker>	Next question is from MarvTS
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Aug 24 20.46.44 <Cyberserker>	'Was this fiasco the first indication you had that games journalism had such a problem with nepotism?'

Aug 24 20.47.33 <Eron_G>	no. first indication was probably this: http://antinegationism.tumblr.com/post/94949683906/dont-get-me-started-actually-i-have-a-feeling
Aug 24 20.47.35 <Eron_G>	^^^
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Aug 24 20.47.47 <Cyberserker>	All right
Aug 24 20.47.51 <Cyberserker>	Next is from invasionone
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Aug 24 20.48.01 <Cyberserker>	"in the chat logs, she talks about how she wants to move up the ladder and redistribute the power, comparing it to "money laundering". does this have anything to do with rebel jam? if not, care to elaborate?"
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Aug 24 20.48.37 <Eron_G>	Pretty much anything she does which would increase her exposure gives her cred in the industry. Which gives her weight to throw around. 
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Aug 24 20.48.48 <Eron_G>	rebel jam would give her a lot of cred
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Aug 24 20.49.14 <Cyberserker>	Next is from Guest21235
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Aug 24 20.49.27 <Cyberserker>	He wants to know why you think the GAME_JAM terms 'weren't fine'
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Aug 24 20.50.07 <Eron_G>	They allowed the directors to form whatever narrative they wanted out of the footage. and they didn't allow her to give her side of events at all.

Hard-hitting stuff. The only impression I get of ZQ from this story is that she’s unwilling to be bossed around and willing to be a little forceful in her business dealings. But this may be the kernel of why the internet takes such umbrage with her… a woman who’s more steely at her job is easy to disregard as pushy. That’s the “weight” which Eron notes Zoe has as one of only a few female game designers in an overwhelmingly male industry.

Aug 24 20.50.40 <Cyberserker>	Next is from Pyrate
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Aug 24 20.50.44 <Cyberserker>	"Ask him why he seems to be making this very personal."
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Aug 24 20.51.22 <Eron_G>	Because my girlfriend cheated on me a ton and all of the things I thought I loved her for were an act. 
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Aug 24 20.51.37 <Cyberserker>	Next is from goyfather
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Aug 24 20.51.44 <Cyberserker>	Concerning Rebel Jam: "Question: Did you ever see her actually working on it, or did she just speak about it?"
Aug 24 20.53.04 <Eron_G>	Working on it amounts to emailing people a lot and networking. So yeah, sort of. I don't think rebel jam is fake, if that's what you're getting at. Though it is kind of concerning that there might not be much accountability for how much of the funding goes to her and how much goes to the jam. But it's not like the people she's working with are stupid, so I think maybe they have systems in place.

4chan would like so desperately to prove that Zoe Quinn is bad at her job, or lied about it, or that there was something here really to persecute, aren’t they? They want dearly to find a flaw in the way she does her work, that she defrauded them in some way. Indeed, Eron seems a little jealous of her success. But just when you think it’s getting boring, Eron starts coaching 4chan how to continue harassing Zoe Quinn while deflecting criticism from women on the internet who find it repulsive.

Aug 24 20.53.26 <Cyberserker>	Next is from enig
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Aug 24 20.53.38 <Cyberserker>	"Did you expect the statement about "burgers and fries" to blow up into as big of a joke as it became?"
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Aug 24 20.53.50 <Eron_G>	Sort of. 
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Aug 24 20.54.24 <Eron_G>	basically, there was another one I really wanted to make which was hilarious and would have become the calling card over burgers and fries. But it relied on censored information.
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Aug 24 20.54.53 <Eron_G>	Relative to that one, burgers and fries seemed less like it had potential for memetic response
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Aug 24 20.55.11 <Eron_G>	but, everyone I ran the piece by before publishing laughed like crazy at it
Aug 24 20.55.19 <Eron_G>	so, yeah. Sort of. 
Aug 24 20.55.26 <Eron_G>	A meme wasn't the intent though
Aug 24 20.55.36 <Eron_G>	the intent was just to make the giant ass thing easier to read through
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Aug 24 20.56.11 <Cyberserker>	Next is from LesboRobo
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Aug 24 20.56.13 <Cyberserker>	"how do you feel about the amount of diversity rallied against all this?"
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Aug 24 20.56.32 <Eron_G>	I take it you mean 4Chan + reddit + everywhere else. 
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Aug 24 20.56.49 <Eron_G>	It's an interesting thing. Basically I'm glad for it, because I wanted diverse discussion on the topic
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Aug 24 20.57.12 <Eron_G>	but I'm surprised that it managed to become diverse given the initial very misogynistic and slut-shame like tone. 
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Aug 24 20.57.28 <Eron_G>	And I want to distinguish between slut shaming and infidelity shaming there

Infidelity shaming? Is that your excuse, Eron? Let me set something straight here: generally, it’s not okay to cheat. But I have learned that because someone does something shit to you, doesn’t mean you’re allowed to do shit things back to them. And it’s absolutely evil to do something worse to them, even if would personally make you feel better. But the absolute disregard for ZQ’s personal and professional life continues:

Aug 24 20.57.41 <Eron_G>	Actually, I want to take this opportunity to say something else
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Aug 24 20.58.44 <Cyberserker>	Go ahead
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Aug 24 20.59.13 <Eron_G>	The sexual harassment thing on twitter is really killing the causes. I request that if you're on twitter, you continue voicing your support for the causes. And feel free to keep pointing out Zoe on hypocrisy. But basically call out anyone that is saying things openly antagonistic on grounds that accomplish nothing. You want to become the levelheaded side of the debate.

Eron Gjoni is coaching 4chan how to best continue harassing Zoe Quinn without you know, being held responsible for harrassing Zoe Quinn. That’s kind of his thing. Eron goes on to theorize awhile about why Zoe’s got it so easy in the indie game-maker scene. Oh, and as you might imagine Zoe Quinn hasn’t sent him any death threats. Such a relief!

Aug 24 20.59.20 <Eron_G>	Because the scene *is* very nepotistic
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Aug 24 20.59.29 <Eron_G>	and when you attack it, it's going to band together
Aug 24 20.59.36 <Eron_G>	to protect its own
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Aug 24 20.59.43 <Eron_G>	because their livelihoods depend on one another 
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Aug 24 21.00.12 <Eron_G>	so you don't want to make it a flat out attack on the scene. Bring up concerns, and try to make them well reasoned 
Aug 24 21.00.17 <Eron_G>	that's my suggestion
Aug 24 21.00.33 <Eron_G>	^^^
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Aug 24 21.00.39 <Cyberserker>	Next is from PaperDinosaur
Aug 24 21.00.42 <Cyberserker>	"Obviously this is now out of control and no one can predict what will happen, but what do you hope the end result of this is? Do you want to see the Indie clique crumble and a new set of people replacing them or possibly a governing body set up to properly regulate what is there now?"
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Aug 24 21.01.59 <Eron_G>	I honestly don't know how to address all of the problems in the scene with one fell swoop without killing the scene completely. But the journalism thing is seriously exacerbating issues. Journalists should not have power to control devs, and devs should not have power to control journalists. 
Aug 24 21.02.16 <Eron_G>	Evenhanded coverage will help mitigate the issues that arise as a result of nepotism driven coverage
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Aug 24 21.02.53 <Eron_G>	but other than that indie is supposed to be a community, and a community is supposed to be a support network. The issue is just making that it should be harder to be ostracized from the community. 
Aug 24 21.03.00 <Eron_G>	Like JonTron took a ton of damage over this
Aug 24 21.03.10 <Eron_G>	and so did wolf probably
Aug 24 21.03.14 <Eron_G>	^^^
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Aug 24 21.03.40 <Eron_G>	blech, sorry for typos, will try to be more careful
Aug 24 21.03.42 <Cyberserker>	What do you think caused the dislike between JonTron and Zoe? Related question from Cameralady
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Aug 24 21.05.06 <Eron_G>	Basically Zoe felt he wasn't respecting her as a female dev ^^^
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Aug 24 21.05.23 <Cyberserker>	Next question from DTrig
Aug 24 21.05.24 <Cyberserker>	"Has Zoe made any direct or indirect threats against you? Have you received any threats that could possibly spur the interest of law enforcement to begin an investigation in solving the false flag claims?"
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Aug 24 21.06.22 <Eron_G>	No threats that I know of. Though I wouldn't be entirely surprised if boggs hires a bitcoin hitman ^^^
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Aug 24 21.06.33 <Cyberserker>	Next question from Anon (username Anon, not an anonymous ask, just to be clear)
Aug 24 21.06.41 <Cyberserker>	"Do you think zoey has any involvement with polytron and indiogogo shutting down"
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Aug 24 21.07.02 <Eron_G>	you mean the TFYC indiegogo? 
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Aug 24 21.07.09 <Cyberserker>	Apparently
Aug 24 21.07.15 <Eron_G>	I don't think she has much involvement with anything that doesn't directly benefit her
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That I believe is called poisoning the well. Because Eron can’t find anything factually troublesome about Quinn or her work history, he has to go for the theorizing and immaterial claims like the one above. That she might have benefitted from something or another. He even goes on to talk about specific donations she recieved, although it’s a bit of a snooze. You’re free to look it up yourself in the original logs. It’s on Aug 24 around 21:07 through 21:09. There’s more nasty quotes of Eron’s for me to focus on, like speculation on ZQ’s sex life to a waiting audience of 266 persons.

Aug 24 21.10.30 <Cyberserker>	Referring to the earlier question about the Five Guys nickname: "Someone is claiming to have "eiffel towered her" at a games convention, would that censored information be related to that"
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Aug 24 21.11.00 <Eron_G>	No, it wouldn't be related to that. But I wouldn't be surprised if that was a thing that happened. ^^^
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Aug 24 21.11.27 <Cyberserker>	Next is from snipars
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Aug 24 21.11.30 <Cyberserker>	"ask him if he's afraid of the lawsuit that Nathan Grayson is supposedly gonna do against this whole thing
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Aug 24 21.12.00 <Eron_G>	I'm not afraid of the lawsuit. And I'm damn sure no one involved is stupid enough to file one.
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Aug 24 21.12.33 <Cyberserker>	Okay
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Aug 24 21.13.17 <Eron_G>	so, there's no way to kill the user has joined notifications?
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Aug 24 21.13.36 <NASA_Agent>	> 266 users

Did you catch that, readers? 266 users are in this chatroom. That’s hardly the twenty or thirty commonly cited on Twitter, but 266. That’s not a small difference. There’s ample evidence the #burgersandfries chatroom is incredibly popular.

Aug 24 21.14.24 <Cyberserker>	Okay
Aug 24 21.14.29 *	Lawfag (qwebirc@691802F8.3E0E4560.58E35A1B.IP) has joined #burgersandfries
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Aug 24 21.14.39 <Cyberserker>	Reopening my PMs now
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Aug 24 21.14.44 <Cyberserker>	Because people don't stop trying
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Aug 24 21.14.57 <NASA_Agent>	Josh_ asks "Does Eron know anything useful related to the person that is hacking and calling themselves the head mod of "/V/"?"
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Aug 24 21.15.35 <Eron_G>	I don't know anything about him or them. But I'm amused by their antics. 
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Aug 24 21.15.48 <Cyberserker>	Next is from Cameralady
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Aug 24 21.15.52 <Cyberserker>	" Do you think matti from the failed game_jam actually has a case against Zoe, Nathan, Grayson, and Kotaku, as outlined in InternetAristocrat's latest video?"
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Aug 24 21.16.15 <Eron_G>	I haven't seen the latest video. What would the claim of the case be? 
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Aug 24 21.17.04 <Eron_G>	In any case, pepsi has a lot of lawyers, so I think if they felt it best to sue, they would have sued. 
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Aug 24 21.17.18 <Cyberserker>	Next is from Zoe
Aug 24 21.17.22 <Cyberserker>	"Can you please provide us with any further information that might shed light on pre-existing issues unknown to the video game community with independent developers" 
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Aug 24 21.17.48 <Eron_G>	Seriously? Your username is Zoe and you're not going to use that to make a joke? 
Aug 24 21.17.49 <Eron_G>	Okay anyway

Eron, is this seriously a place to be joking? He answers more questions about whether or not there are any improprieties in Quinn’s work history before excusing himself again for a smoke. When he gets back, he starts a conversation with Lawfag, an anon who claims to be a lawyer. The other admins of the chat room seem to take his opinion very seriously, and go to the length of giving Eron Gjoni free (or nearly free) legal advice. Also, Gjoni makes it clear he IS worried about a libel suit, and carefully policing his language so that he can help #burgersinfries without personally risking getting into legal trouble himself. Interesting how what Gjoni describes as a “hatebox” is so willing to work with him. But then again, it just proves these people are really on the same side.

Lawfag’s interest is to follow the money, ostensibly to prove some wrongdoing on ZQ’s part. Lawfag’s intention seems to be getting Zoe Quinn audited by the IRS, and seem to believe her donation page constitutes a form of fraud. For what it’s worth, Gjoni can provide no evidence that’s the case; but says he’s withholding information. And as such an unholy alliance between Gjoni and the “Lawfag” user is forged.

Aug 24 21.31.59 <Eron_G>	back
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Aug 24 21.32.08 <Cyberserker>	All right
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Aug 24 21.32.19 <Lawfag>	Alright mind if I ask a few questions?
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Aug 24 21.32.19 <Cyberserker>	Next question from PaperDinosaur
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Aug 24 21.32.22 <Cyberserker>	Oh
Aug 24 21.32.23 <Cyberserker>	Okay
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Aug 24 21.32.27 <Cyberserker>	Go ahead Lawfag
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Aug 24 21.32.35 <Cyberserker>	Yetsturdy stop
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Aug 24 21.32.37 <Lawfag>	Alright I just wanna know some information about the donations if that's okay with you
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Aug 24 21.32.44 <Eron_G>	i Lawfag a lawyer or law student?
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Aug 24 21.32.51 <Lawfag>	Lawyer
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Aug 24 21.33.01 <Eron_G>	Lawfag: sure
Aug 24 21.33.03 <Lawfag>	Me and another guy on /v/ were digging into this
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Aug 24 21.33.20 <Lawfag>	I saw in an earlier screencap that Zoe got a 1,000 dollar donation when she was mugged
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Aug 24 21.33.31 <Lawfag>	Do you know on average how much she makes off of these donations?
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Aug 24 21.34.46 <Lawfag>	If you don't wanna answer dude, that's fine.
Aug 24 21.34.50 <Eron_G>	This was one specific incidence. So they aren't ongoing. And I think she made like $6,000 total. If memory serves? But if you're shooting for the tax fraud route I don't know how good that will look from a PR standpoint. 
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Aug 24 21.34.58 <Eron_G>	It might also have been $3,000
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Aug 24 21.35.15 <Eron_G>	it was somewhere in the multi thousand IIRC at least 
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Aug 24 21.35.25 <Lawfag>	Well I'm more interested in where the money is going after it hits paypall
Aug 24 21.35.28 <Eron_G>	less than 10,000, more than 1,000
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Aug 24 21.36.00 <Lawfag>	I haven't been able to find a business or charity
Aug 24 21.36.04 <Lawfag>	And the paypal is straight to her
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Aug 24 21.36.22 <Eron_G>	those donations weren't solicited nor did she claim they would go toward anything
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Aug 24 21.36.42 <Lawfag>	Well the problem is, that on the Rebel Game Jam page it says it would be donations to that
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Aug 24 21.36.53 <Lawfag>	But then hidden on the donation page is that it just goes straight to her
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Aug 24 21.37.07 <Eron_G>	It said the mugging money would go toward rebel jam? 
Aug 24 21.37.09 <Lawfag>	Had she ever mentioned anything about fooling people? Or how people are fools about this?
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Aug 24 21.37.17 <Lawfag>	No, no, that's another issue
Aug 24 21.37.22 <Lawfag>	I'm talking about the donations in general
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Aug 24 21.38.03 <Eron_G>	oh. no she would not have mentioned anything to me which would have made me think that much less of her as a person. Though she had mentioned things from her past. But I won't bring those up. 
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Aug 24 21.38.42 <Eron_G>	like, many years ago. I have no proof of them, so I don't want to risk a libel suit
Aug 24 21.38.44 <Lawfag>	Well it could be incredibly important. I don't hate Zoe or anything of the matter. But in my digging in this subject there are a lot of things that point towards fraud
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Aug 24 21.38.49 <Lawfag>	You won't risk libel
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Aug 24 21.39.16 <Eron_G>	claiming things for which I have no evidence could constitute libel if you fail to find the evidence. 
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Aug 24 21.39.36 <Eron_G>	point out the suspicious things though, and i can tell you if I think you're on the right track?
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Aug 24 21.40.01 <Lawfag>	I don't want to reveal anything I haven't filed the IRS audit yet
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Aug 24 21.40.15 <UKLawfag>	It's not libel if it's true, if there is concrete evidence, then there's nothing to be worried about
Aug 24 21.40.16 <Lawfag>	But I truly am concerned she's scamming people for thousands of dollars
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Aug 24 21.40.34 <UKLawfag>	If it's tenuous however, I would hold off.
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Aug 24 21.41.09 <UKLawfag>	Whatever the case, thank you Mr. Eron G.
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Aug 24 21.41.15 <Eron_G>	UKLawfag: right, there isn't concrete evidence yet. they are based off of in person discussions
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Aug 24 21.41.25 <UKLawfag>	Due to your involvement, you have become the catalyst for an investigation.
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Aug 24 21.41.35 <Lawfag>	Well if you've talked to her and she's alluded to things like that, you do need to let us know
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Aug 24 21.42.41 <UKLawfag>	If Lawfag opened up a paypal account, and Eron put $1, you would be his attorney and you wouldn't have to tell anybody since it's privileged information. 
Aug 24 21.43.09 <UKLawfag>	If you're worried about anything.
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Aug 24 21.43.15 <Eron_G>	Lawfag: let's talk it over PM in a bit. 
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To quote ZQ herself, it’s scary how planned all this shit was.

Lawfag seems very serious about auditing her… and regardless of what folks are saying on Twitter, children are usually not lawyers capable of serving civil ligitation. That Lawfag keeps talking about is kinda scary; an audit request essentially sounds like a fishing expedition to find more dirt to air about ZQ. Only this time, 4chan would be misleading the IRS into wasting their resouces on doing so. And while he’s in the chatroom this harrassment machine turns on the comments Eron is giving them… which is what I’ve been saying about him all along.

Aug 24 21.45.06 <Cyberserker>	All right, PaperDinosaur's question:
Aug 24 21.45.08 <Cyberserker>	"What would make you reveal the stuff you're censoring? Is it because you're afraid of legal action or because you're trying to protect people/yourself?"
...
Aug 24 21.45.47 <Eron_G>	The stuff I've censored has been censored to protect Zoe from undue harassment. 
...
Aug 24 21.45.58 <Eron_G>	not of a legal nature

The word “undue” there seems to suggest that there is a certain amount of harassment of ZQ that Eron finds acceptable, or that he thinks her worthy of. Just pointing that out. But then he answers a question that I had been wondering myself:

Aug 24 21.46.14 <Cyberserker>	From rts13
Aug 24 21.46.16 <Cyberserker>	"Do you have any regrets at all for making the initial blogpost?"
...
Aug 24 21.46.55 <Eron_G>	No regrets ^^^
Aug 24 21.46.58 <Eron_G>	well
...
Aug 24 21.47.05 <Eron_G>	I wish the harassment thing would die down
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Aug 24 21.47.20 <Eron_G>	and allow for more honest discussion
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Aug 24 21.47.36 <Eron_G>	but other than that, I feel much better after posting than before posting ^^^

I just censored out a bunch of people entering the thread in those ellipses, too. A lot of antisemitic and racist usernames, really… I’m glad to censor them but I want to note they’re there. And also, that Eron Gjoni doesn’t regret anything, except the consequences the continued harassment is having on the reputation of a campaign designed to harass.

Aug 24 21.47.43 <Cyberserker>	All right
...
Aug 24 21.47.53 <Cyberserker>	Next question is from rd0952
Aug 24 21.47.54 <Cyberserker>	"How closely do you align with Zoe's publicly professed ideologies?"
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Aug 24 21.48.30 <Eron_G>	Her publicly professed ones, pretty closely for most of them. What turns out to be her actual ones, not even remotely. She's a dick. 
...
Aug 24 21.49.09 <Cyberserker>	Next is from Tony_Soprano
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Aug 24 21.49.15 <Cyberserker>	"Do you know what degree of influence and/or connections Zoe has to people in the industry, publications, or elsewhere? Would you be able to name people, websites, etc?"
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Aug 24 21.50.08 <Eron_G>	Basically, pick a thing related to videogames, and she either knows someone there, or knows someone who knows someone. This is why it's been so easy to make the conspiracy diagrams. 
...
Aug 24 21.50.33 <Eron_G>	Wait
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Aug 24 21.50.59 <Eron_G>	I'll add that this isn't uncommon. Again, the clique thing. But Zoe is very good at doing "I'm your friend love me"
...
Aug 24 21.51.28 <Cyberserker>	These next two (almost identical) ones are from Gregarious and Bugweiser, respectively
Aug 24 21.51.30 <Cyberserker>	"Has Zoe (or anyone related to the recent incidents) threatened to pursue legal action against you for libel, and if so, have they said on what grounds?"
Aug 24 21.51.31 <Cyberserker>	"Have you been personally threatened at all since this whole thing exploded?"
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Aug 24 21.52.16 <Eron_G>	Only Nathan has threatened to pursue legal action based on a typo. But the typo was corrected before he threatened to do that. 
Aug 24 21.52.26 <Eron_G>	so that's probably not going anywhere
...
Aug 24 21.53.04 <Eron_G>	No one I know to be related to Zoe in any way has out right threatened me with physical harm.

No one’s threatened to sue him, no one’s threatened to hurt him; Eron reports. Unfortunately this chatroom is a clearinghouse for contemplating how to visit those very things upon Zoe Quinn. And again, having friends in the industry you work isn’t necessarily a bad thing… isn’t that just having business connections? It’s weird how he tries to make Zoe’s conduct into something unacceptable by poisoning the well with admonitions she’s a “dick.”

Eron’s willing to name the forums she frequents, anything really that won’t get him in trouble. But once the topic turns to actual game ethics, Gjoni had very little to share.

4 21.53.13 <Cyberserker>	This question is from mib_hzcej5
Aug 24 21.53.14 <Cyberserker>	"What about Zoe's past experiences with image boards like 4chan/wizardchan? Was she a regular on any of those boards or any like it?"
...
Aug 24 21.54.01 <Eron_G>	She was a regular on Something Awful. And they like her in a "we knew her before she was famous" sort of way. Which is why I chose Something Awful as one of the two boards to drop this one. 
...
Aug 24 21.54.04 <Eron_G>	drop this on*
...
Aug 24 21.54.18 <Eron_G>	but no chans to my knowledge
Aug 24 21.54.20 <Eron_G>	^^^
...
Aug 24 21.54.32 <Cyberserker>	Question from raisin
Aug 24 21.54.34 <Cyberserker>	"You said that you've gotten accounts from indie devs on how broken the scene is. Can you share any of those, or all they private?"
...
Aug 24 21.55.46 <Eron_G>	They are all private and tenuous. And the annoying thing is a lot of them are through *other* people. Who I do have reason to trust. But it means I have to get those people to try to convince them. Because they won't talk to me directly. They explicitly stated that their reason is fear for their careers.

Well, we have Eron’s word on that. But part of me wonders if he’s not disclosing more corruption in the indie game scene because he really doesn’t know of any, given the pretty weak stories of Quinn being assertive and good at her job that are supposed to be his character assassination and valuable contribution to this “movement” for gaming ethics. More poisoning the well:

Aug 24 22.02.12 <Cyberserker>	Question from Jughead
Aug 24 22.02.14 <Cyberserker>	"Are you at all surprised at Wolf Wozniak's accusation of Zoe sexually harassing him at a wedding (allegedly Phil Fish's)? Are you surprised at the instant backlash?"
...
Aug 24 22.02.30 <Eron_G>	I am surprised at neither ^^^

Now that Eron’s “proven” (or at least alleged) ZQ cheated, it’s apparently permissible to list other rumors of her sexual improprieties, even if such accusations are hearsay and Eron actually knew nothing about them until Anon mentions it. But even then it’s brushed off with a simple “I’m not surprised”. But how do ladies like Zoe get so popular anyway? According to Eron, the answer is harassment.

Aug 24 22.06.30 <Cyberserker>	"How does someone like Zoe get acquainted with the people she knows? I had never heard of her until this whole scandal."
...
Aug 24 22.08.28 <Eron_G>	Oh man. Will not give a full answer to this -- but part of it was that she got a lot of attention as a result of harassment. Which means she attracted the attention of people looking to put an end to that sort of bullshit. Having someone's attention is enough to befriend them. And she's very good at getting people to like her.

Again, I fail to see how this is a bad thing. She’s being harassed, and it attracts the attention of reasonable people who don’t think it’s okay to harass others. And then because Quinn is good as identifying herself as something other than a victim (despite 4chan’s desperate attempts to put her there) that’s a bad thing? And since when was a facility in getting people to like you a bad skill to have in an industry Gjoni staunchly believes is all about who you know? He keeps trying to phrase good things about Quinn’s work habits as if they are bad ones, and it’s a little bit insane how he’s twisting his own facts to portray Quinn in the worst light possible.

But although Gjoni doesn’t seem to have much proof of anything, he’s willing to coach the chatroom in how best to represent their harassment of Zoe Quinn as something other than harassment:

Aug 24 22.08.58 <Cyberserker>	Question from Crash
...
Aug 24 22.08.59 <Cyberserker>	"Can you confirm or deny what she did to wolfgang?"
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Aug 24 22.09.47 <Eron_G>	That would have happened in our relationship. So she wouldn't have told me about it. 
...

Aug 24 22.10.21 <Cyberserker>	Question from temet
...
Aug 24 22.10.22 <Cyberserker>	"Thank you for taking the time to sit with us today. My queston is, taking into account everything that has happened, is game journalism changing because of it? Do you see journalists being more careful because of the Zoe incident?"
...
Aug 24 22.11.46 <Eron_G>	I don't think journalists are just going to drop their friendships because of this. And for now I think the out of left field attack has caused everyone to band together even more closely. Which is again, why the harrassment needs to die down and become more reasoned debate. One of the links in the blogpost has a good indiestatik article on the issue from a year ago
...
Aug 24 22.12.02 <Eron_G>	But I think you need to press journals on this 
...
Aug 24 22.12.15 <Eron_G>	and actually have them post what their new standards are
...
Aug 24 22.12.30 <Eron_G>	that's personal (reasoned) opinion though. 
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Aug 24 22.12.38 <Eron_G>	I have been out of the scene since dumping Zoe

The reasoned opinion of a man whose closest connection to the industry he’s critiquing is currently a target of severe harassment, and whom he clearly believes has wronged him in one way or another. Eron Gjoni seems to be what my inner Lawfag would call an “unreliable witness”, one with a reason to lie and manipulate his audience into believing the worst about Zoe. And he’s doing nothing to actually protect her from harassment, unless you count not posting sensitive data which Gjoni knows would get him in serious trouble if he did. Which is not exactly upstanding or ethical; Gjoni just wants to harass ZQ without actually being responsible for doing so.

The real burning question of the chatroom isn’t gaming ethics, however. It’s Quinn. She’s in the nicknames of the users, the topic of the chat, and the questions perpetually cycle back to her. Like this one:

Aug 24 22.14.17 <Cyberserker>	"Why do you think Zoe acts as she does? Is it simply her way to behave with people or is there some pathological factor you suspect?"
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Aug 24 22.15.00 <Eron_G>	ehhh, difficult question to answer. without violating a few things
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Aug 24 22.15.09 <Eron_G>	but, is this really that important to people?
Aug 24 22.15.16 <Cyberserker>	Apparently
...
Aug 24 22.15.24 <Eron_G>	I'm curious as to what difference it makes if it is pathological or not
Aug 24 22.15.28 <Eron_G>	anyway
...
Aug 24 22.15.38 <Cyberserker>	Question from sprocket
Aug 24 22.15.40 <Cyberserker>	"Are some big named internet celbs "encouraged" to tweet in favor of her actions even if they do not want to get involved whatsoever?"
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Aug 24 22.16.19 <Eron_G>	Probably not encouraged to do it. But heavily discouraged from tweeting against her actions. Like, even talking about the matter privately with friends in some scenes is just NOPE
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Aug 24 22.16.44 <Eron_G>	in Toronto, a lot of people would just kind of express vague dislike for her 
Aug 24 22.16.51 <Eron_G>	before this happened
Aug 24 22.16.53 <Eron_G>	apparently now
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Aug 24 22.17.00 <Eron_G>	they will shut down at the mention of her name.

That’s hardly surprising if Eron’s speaking from his own experience of mentioning Zoe’s name. I’d be more surprised if people suddenly did want to engage with him, knowing what he wrote about Quinn and the effect it’s had. He seems like the worst kind of knave, the sore loser who wants to be comforted while an internet mob attempts to harass Zoe Quinn to suicide. (See this article by David Futrelle for more information about that.)

Aug 24 22.17.04 <Cyberserker>	Could you elaborate as to why? Is it just the close-knit circle of friendship in the indie community?
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Aug 24 22.17.11 <Cyberserker>	This is from me
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Aug 24 22.17.29 <Eron_G>	Because pissing off people who support her means risk of being ostracized. 
Aug 24 22.17.38 <Eron_G>	a friend in the AAA portion of the industry
Aug 24 22.17.51 <Eron_G>	said that they couldn't get enough of it, and that it was like the Jersey shore of videogames

Yep, you read that right. According to Eron’s ‘friends’ in AAA gaming, watching Zoe Quinn’s harassment has been like “the Jersey shore of videogames” and they could not get enough of it. Christ. But there were some people who didn’t want to stand idly by… like Phil Fish.

Aug 24 22.20.41 <Cyberserker>	Question from mib_4fily7
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Aug 24 22.20.42 <Cyberserker>	"any idea of why phil fish was defending Zoe so fervently to the point of self-destruction."
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Aug 24 22.21.34 <Eron_G>	They've been good friends for a long time. I think she even has a credit in Fez? I'm not sure. Part of it is probably that she was very supportive of him when he was first getting harassed. That's what she's told me any way.

Eron, there are friends and then there are “friends”. The former is like Fish, and will go to the mat for you b/c you went there for them. The latter are duplicitous sharks like yourself. Here, Gjoni comments on his plans in case this whole #burgersandfries thing blows up in his face:

Aug 24 22.21.54 <Cyberserker>	Question from TangoFett
Aug 24 22.21.56 <Cyberserker>	"Thanks for being with us here today Eron. In case this whole debacle is not properly dealt with in the near future, or if the Quinn side wins and yourself and gamers as a whole are seen in a bad light, would you speak out publicly even so?"
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Aug 24 22.23.20 <Eron_G>	I'm still trying to think about how that would go down. I would recommend avoiding a situation where you are seen in a bad light, by shouting down people who spread pointless harassment. Legitimate concerns will listened to if you organize properly. But the smell of people's genitalia is not a legitimate concern.

It almost comes off like he’s coaching 4chan how to present their concerns about Quinn, i.e. to couch it in language about “gaming ethics” and “integrity”. It’s clear Gjoni is on 4chan’s side, at least for the moment:

Aug 24 22.26.45 <Cyberserker>	Question from ShillFish
Aug 24 22.26.47 <Cyberserker>	"Thanks for taking my earlier question. Do you think indies themselves could be rallied to lash out against corruption in journalism via panels at gaming conventions, or is this "suicide?" Would you be willing to speak on a panel about this topic?"
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Aug 24 22.27.05 <Eron_G>	hmmm. . . 
...
Aug 24 22.27.19 <Eron_G>	I hadn't considered the possibility of getting indies themselves to do it. 
...
Aug 24 22.27.24 <Eron_G>	actually
Aug 24 22.27.31 <Eron_G>	that gives me a number of things to think on
...

Aug 24 22.27.51 <Eron_G>	I'll drop into /v/ in a few days if it leads to anything

Holy christ, Eron, you sound like a plotting villian. And from what I’ve got in front of me, you kind of think like one, too:

Aug 24 22.33.15 <Cyberserker>	Question from draft37
Aug 24 22.33.16 <Cyberserker>	"Do you /v/ has missed the mark in targeting Zoe rather than the journalists who published work that had a conflict of interest?"
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Aug 24 22.34.53 <Eron_G>	I think /v/ has targeted both. They aren't a hivemind. But, I think they're targetting Zoe the wrong way. And they are focusing too much on sex in the journalism thing. Sex is a tiny ass part of the problem at most.

It must be a central pillar of Gjoni’s perception of this to think it’s about ethics, because he even disagrees with the people in the channel — who to be fair, are crystal clear about who they’re here for, and it isn’t the ghost of game ethics in journalism. He must need to think this to think of himself as a reasonably decent guy, which of course, he isn’t. After some more vague statements about how best to create an ethical environment in an industry he’s not a part of, Gjoni turns his attention to other potential targets for his ire, the men who allegedly cuckolded him (although you *do* have to be married to be a proper cuckold… -ID)

Aug 24 22.43.19 <Cyberserker>	"Do you think if this situation escalates any further, or fails to die down anytime soon, that certain people involved will be at risk of losing their jobs? The five guys for instance."
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Aug 24 22.45.06 <Eron_G>	I don't think Nathan did anything he can get fired over. Because he was keeping within the standards of his publication. Josh Boggs is self employed. And Robin Arnott has a ton of money. So, except for nathan, there isn't anyone to fire them. 
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Aug 24 22.45.18 <Eron_G>	But it's possible that they'll quit the scene if the harassment doesn't stop. 
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Aug 24 22.45.48 <Eron_G>	And I basically just don't like Josh and would have no problem with him quitting the scene. But he probably won't, because framed will make a ton of money as a result of this controversy

“I basically don’t like Josh” is a pretty good reason to turn Anon onto trying to hack his phone and harass him, isn’t it? Gjoni seems sad at the possibility that more people won’t be leaving the games industry as a result of vengeful things he writes. Apparently, Gjoni hasn’t spent those mental calculation cycles on actually trying to stop the harassment he engendered, though:

Aug 24 22.47.07 <Cyberserker>	Question from HateSama
Aug 24 22.47.09 <Cyberserker>	"Have you talked with IA via skype? Or through some other means? Why not appear on one of his videos to tell people to calm down on the harassment?"
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Aug 24 22.48.24 <Eron_G>	That might be a good idea. I was thinking it would be cool to see the community come together to simultaneously get people to move the discussion in a more positive direction and deter random harassment though. It just seems -- better. 
Aug 24 22.48.42 <Eron_G>	But if IA reaches out to me I might consider a video. So long as we discuss some terms first. 
Aug 24 22.48.45 <Eron_G>	^^^

Why would it be better for the harassment to simply and organically resolve itself? Why is it so hard for Gjoni to apologize for siccing a virtual mob on ZQ and anyone close to her? I wonder if it’s because ZQ will have nothing to do with him now, like we read here.

Aug 24 22.51.03 <Cyberserker>	"Has Zoe ever tried to contact you since the breakup? Has she ever attempted to target you since you put up the blog or has she ever tried to spin her usual sob story bullshit on you?"
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Aug 24 22.51.27 <Eron_G>	Not since I put up the blog. Not even since the headphones.

The headphone’s Gjoni’s referring to are some which ZQ allegedly stole. After another cigarette break, Eron returns to discuss Zoe’s harassment some more. He seems to know exactly what’s happened, and seems to think Quinn deserves it for harassing him,

Aug 24 23.18.18 <Cyberserker>	Question from LunaticFringe
Aug 24 23.18.20 <Cyberserker>	"Why are Quinn and her supporters trying to paint all of this as "harassment" even though there's a mountain of evidence saying otherwise?"
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Aug 24 23.19.01 <Eron_G>	Because there's mountains of people calling her "cunt" and "slut" and proliferating nudes of her. 
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Aug 24 23.19.26 <Eron_G>	I mean, there's probably a bunch of that right now if you search "zoe quinn" or "thequinnspiracy" on twitter
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Aug 24 23.21.47 <Cyberserker>	"What do you think her motivation was behind her actions regarding this whole incident?"
Aug 24 23.21.56 <Eron_G>	explicate?
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Aug 24 23.22.41 <Cyberserker>	.voice doctormario
Aug 24 23.22.41 *	GeorgeWashington gives voice to doctormario
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Aug 24 23.22.45 <Cyberserker>	Tell him yourself
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Aug 24 23.23.02 <doctormario>	hi, "What do you think her motivation was behind her actions regarding this whole incident?"
Aug 24 23.23.13 <Eron_G>	right. what do you mean?
Aug 24 23.23.19 <Eron_G>	which of her actions?
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Aug 24 23.23.57 <doctormario>	The oppression of speech online from contributors to her success 
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Aug 24 23.25.11 <Eron_G>	Her motivation was to not lose face. If people know how horribly she treats others, then others will be more careful getting involved with her. Which would make it more difficult for her to mistreat others. 
Aug 24 23.25.12 <Eron_G>	Also
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Aug 24 23.25.22 <Eron_G>	she, like anyone else, probably didn't want to be harassed

You think, Eron? No shit! But this is still an amusing game to him:

Aug 24 23.30.56 <Eron_G>	I think what's amusing is that Something Awful deleted my post, and banned me. And then continued to have a 900 page discussion about my post a week later. 
...

Aug 24 23.59.42 <Eron_G>	thezoepost was not meant to primarily adress journalism. It was just to warn people about Zoe. I mentioned Nathan worked for kotaku because I figured I'd leave the community to make what it wanted out of the implications.

This guy’s a real piece of work. There’s more to his first interview; a sort of general banter section which I’ll have to cover another day, and also five other instances of him entering the chat room to talk about Zoe and oh yeah, game journalists and their ethics. I’m going to do another post about the rest of Gjoni’s involvement with #burgersandfries, just as soon as I tend to some other pressing matters. Until then, peace.

– Caroline.

Eron Gjoni, scorned internet ex, and self-described “devilishly attractive beta cuck” defends his recent actions

Posted by idledillettante

Eron Gjoni: The kind of man who wants to have his revenge and his reputation, too. (But certainly not a shave.)

Perhaps you’ve heard of Eron Gjoni. I wouldn’t be surprised if you haven’t. His name is much less well known than that of Zoe Quinn, game designer and recent target of the massive Twitter harassment campaign #gamergate. For those of you just tuning into this scandal, I’ll provide a quick recap:

August 16: Eron Gjoni posts a 10,000 word article regarding his recent ex Zoe Quinn, titled “Some Closing Words for the Future Lovers, Friends and Business Associates of Zoe Quinn.” The stated purpose of his post is to warn anyone who comes into contact with Quinn about her, allegedly because she cheated on him and lied about it. According to Eron this amounts to rape, because his consent to have sex was predicated on Quinn’s not consenting to have sex with anyone else. (This isn’t really rape, since you can’t withdraw consent to have sex after the act is completed, but let’s not get hung up on that.) “Closing Words” is basically a butthurt screed where Gjoni reflects on how Quinn allegedly cheated on him, complete with screengrabs from facebook and photos of them together at the start of their relationship. It’s clear reading it that Gjoni is hurt by what happened to him, and the thing is nearly the length of a novella complete with “acts”.

August 16-20: 4chan gets hold of Gjoni’s post, and begins harassing Quinn day and night, ostensibly in the name of “game journalism ethics”, because one of the men Quinn allegedly slept with works for Kotaku. (It’s irrelevant because he never reviewed her game or wrote about her after their relationship began.) Internet detectives begin digging up details on Quinn’s personal life based on the information Gjoni disclosed and tweeting nude photographs and rape threats to her at light speed.

August 20: David Futrelle writes about Zoe Quinn’s harassment, and I begin to follow the story. The harassment of Quinn continues apace.

August 24: Eron Gjoni joins the IRC Channel #burgersandfries (a reference to something Gjoni wrote in his original indictment of Quinn’s character). In it he discusses Quinn’s plans to move, how much better he feels having posted his 10,000 word warning, whether Zoe’s family is rich or not, and how he’s being widely hated by SJWs such as myself for his Aug 16 post. He’s generally accepted as one of the boys and shown respect by the anons in the channel. He avoids doxxing his ex (despite repeated requests) but remains in the channel for to answer questions about Quinn’s previous work, her weight, and her previous ex-boyfriends. Memorably, Gjoni writes:

Aug 24 20.50.44 <Cyberserker>	"Ask him why he seems to be making this very personal."

Aug 24 20.51.22 <Eron_G>	Because my girlfriend cheated on me a ton and all of the things I thought I loved her for were an act.

September 6: Zoe Quinn posts screenshots of #burgersandfries. Eron Gjoni is shown to be in them, coaching anons from 4chan on how to make #gamergate appear like a reasonable, grassroots movement focused on video game ethics rather than a witch hunt designed to ruin his ex’s career. Quinn proves it’s actually Gjoni (and not someone pretending to be him) by using whois, although the logs also confirm his identity, as anons repeatedly ask Gjoni if it really is him and Gjoni reponds to their questions with answers only he could know. He is also given admin status within minutes of his arrival.

September 8: Full logs of #burgersandfries are dumped in some halfassed attempt to exonerate 4chan and prove #gamergate really is about journalism ethics. But to quote David Futrelle, if anyone knew what was in them, they would have kept them to themselves.

September 9-10: I have a conversation with Eron Gjoni on Twitter about his conduct regarding Zoe Quinn, and how it is libel and/or criminal incitement. I was a little pissed at him. He links me to this post, published the same day the IRC logs were. That’s what I’m going to review and quote here.

My initial impression of Gjoni’s latest blog post was that it was incredibly dishonest; like most of his work. But let’s let Eron Gjoni’s words speak for themselves.

I’d set out to warn people about the sorts of things Zoe does, and here she was very clearly misrepresenting the contents of the logs, and abandoning her own views on the importance of trying to talk to detractors — in order to vilify me for doing just that. And people just believed her about it.

No, I don’t think I was wrong to be in that chatroom. It was overwhelmingly the right thing to do. And if you wondered “what kind of person even chooses to associate with that group of jerks” then simply put yourself in my shoes.

Well, that answered my burning question on Twitter- whether he intended to send a virtual mob to hunt Quinn down or not, he’s certainly not sorry that it happened. Although the content of the original post makes it clear Gjoni wants to ruin Quinn’s career and personal life, I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. But Gjoni would rather focus on the real victims here- himself, and the people harassing Quinn.

And I had an open and eager audience willing to discuss things with me, whose views were completely contrary to my own. I wasn’t powerless to prevent things from devolving. I could do something.

So I did. I did the kind of thing I fell in love with Zoe for saying she would do. I did the thing Zoe is now calling me evil for doing. I did the thing that was most needed, and that no one else would do. I talked to them, like they were human.

Because they are human.

They are human. They are human. They are human.

They are human, and they’re willing to listen to you if you’ll just let them know you’re willing to have an open and honest discussion with them. They will talk openly and honestly, and if you do it back, you’ll agree on what sorts of actions are in everyone’s (including their) best interest.

Well, Quinn’s harassers are human! That’s certainly a relief, since they could have been bots, or dogs on the internet, or apes who learned to read and write and use Twitter /sarcasm.

But as Gjoni repeats six times, they are HUMANS, who “just want to be listened to”. This whole thing smacks of false equivalency– Gjoni seems to be suggesting that if everyone just kept an open mind and forgave Quinn’s harassers for harassing her day and night, we would see the virtue of their actions, that these are just poor misunderstood souls whose relentless tweeting of Quinn’s nudes were a misguided act of internet patriotism. Add a side of aggrieved entitlement (the comment on “doing the kind of thing I fell in love with Zoe for saying she would do”) and we have Eron Gjoni and the #gamergate movement to a T. But then Gjoni moves on to the outright lies; the sort he says are Quinn’s trademark but are actually Gjoni’s own.

The twitter harassment didn’t just begin to die down, but was actively being discouraged by members of the movement. When members used the tag to harass; other members would reply to tell them to stop.

Eron, knock it off. I’ve read the chat logs– even persons who at times discourage harassing Quinn will later gleefully do it themselves; and there’s little to no policing of the harassment that Quinn recieved by/from #burgersandfries on the channel itself. Indeed, the only convincing argument that makes anyone think twice about harassing Quinn isn’t the effect it will have on her, but the effect it will have on #gamergate and 4chan’s reputation. That’s not compassion… indeed, one anon cautions against harassing Quinn only because it’s a “bad PR move”. Eugh.

After stating #gamergate is there to “make a difference” (yeah right) and his plans to participate in a podcast debate, Gjoni closes with how, if you just work with the trolls, everything comes out roses:

Things are rougher in the internet hatebox — hateboxes don’t act on consensus, they only act on mutual interests. And by definition, the hatebox is a box that will hate you. The hatebox hated me too at first, and inherent lack of consensus means some of it still does. But I went from being known as a “beta cuck” to a “devilishly attractive beta cuck” to having people eager to speak with and listen to me. So yes, it might be rough at first, but you really can foster honest discussion and even camaraderie with people who initially disagree with everything you stand for. I know it’s not impossible, because I’ve done it. And maybe others can too.

Gjoni, I don’t know who’s calling you a “devilishly attractive beta cuck.” If anything, I would call you a liar and a manipulator, of the caliber you accuse Zoe Quinn of being in your initial indictment. Also; check your privelege– as a white man from New England in his mid-twenties, you’re pretty much the stereotype of the AAA gamer. It is naturally easier for you to fit in, and the rage you recieved from 4chan was but a fraction that Quinn recieved, and once you enter the IRC chat the tone changes markedly. There’s a profound difference from the locker-room type bullying you received and the abject threats and harassment Quinn recieved. To suggest the same is a false equivalence.

It’s clear to me that Gjoni is smart enough to know that posting such an excruciatingly detailed story about his relationship with Quinn (complete with pictures) and forwarding it to 4chan would gin up a virtual mob; indeed he knew she’d been harassed and stalked by anons before. So by writing such a document it’s apparent that Gjoni wanted someone else to do the dirty work of harassing and stalking her; so that he could offer some meek resistance and false-equivalence handwaving, window dressing to make him seem like the unwilling pawn in a groundswell of internet anger which Gjoni just happened to unleash on his ex, through no fault of his own. When I contacted him on Twitter I was interested to know whether or not he had any remorse for doing this, even a little bit– but it’s apparent that inasmuch as Quinn’s been harassed, Eron Gjoni got exactly what he wanted.

However, if anything, it’s unlikely he will ever be remembered as anything but “that douchebag who posted a bunch of personal information about Zoe Quinn to try and ruin her life & career.” Such revenge plans often backfire; indeed, with the groundswell of support Quinn has received in recent weeks it’s unlikely Gjoni should ever be employed again.

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Internet Famous Angry Men

A Blog by Margaret Pless

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MRAs of Savage Love: Seandr, the asshole from Seattle

Eron Gjoni’s Involvement in #burgersandfries: The First Interview

Eron Gjoni, scorned internet ex, and self-described “devilishly attractive beta cuck” defends his recent actions